Sometimes it takes out of the box thinking to get people to make the move from cash to digital money. 

And if there is one person who has had to think deeply around this issue, it’s Jojo Malolos, currently the CEO of Philippines payment service PayMongo and before that founded digital bank GoTyme.

But so many people start the journey at the easy bit, in the middle: how to get people who already have money to use cards or digital wallets. Jojo starts at the much more difficult extreme, with people who are unbanked because they have no money at all.

We travel through the journey of providing a basic income to people so they have enough money to open a bank account, through to how to encourage people to take the leap from the under-mattress stash to digital money.Produced by Rachel Williamson and Charis Palmer, with sound engineering by Kevin Hirshorn.