In this episode, Paolo Sironi speaks with Pal Krogdahl, author of Rip Out the Core—an essential guide for anyone wrestling with the stubborn realities of banking core modernization. Despite massive investments, many institutions still face overruns, delays, and outcomes that leave them no stronger than before.  Sparked by a flooded kitchen that perfectly mirrored the chaos of real-world banking transformation programs, Pal’s book shifts the lens from pure technology to organization, showing that lasting change is impossible without adapting the way people work. He speaks to banking executives and transformation leaders tired of endless patching, converting hard-won industry experience into precise, actionable steps that finally deliver meaningful business value.  Join us as we unpack why core modernization so often fails, how organizational design must evolve alongside systems, and the practical path to progress that stops the cycle of frustration once and for all.