483 Sneak Peek Finovate Europe

This show is sponsored by FIS. Welcome to Breaking Banks, the number one global fintech radio show and podcast. I’m Brett King.

And I’m Jason Henricks. Every week since 2013, we explore the personalities, startups, innovators, and industry players driving disruption in financial services. From incumbents to unicorns and from cutting-edge technology to the people using it to help create a more innovative, inclusive, and healthy financial future.

I’m J.P. Nichols, and this is Breaking Banks. This week, we turn the show over to our colleagues from our sister show, Breaking Banks Europe, with a sneak peek at Finovate Europe, coming up March 14th and 15th. I’m Francesca Liberti, and I will be hosting this episode.

Today, we are talking with two very nice guests. I had the chance to chit-chat with them five minutes ago, and they are really super funny and interesting people to talk with. This is a sneak peek of one of the most important European fintech events that are actually coming up very soon.

It’s Finovate Europe, which is going to be held in London on the 14th and 15th of March. And as I said before, I have the pleasure to have here Greg Palmer, VP of Strategy and the host of the show. Hi, Greg.

Nice to have you here. Thanks for having me. And also, Theodora Lau, founder of Unconventional Ventures and quite well-known face within the Finovate family.

Hi, Theodora. You caused trouble. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. Thank you for joining. So guys, let’s start really from the basics.

So I know for sure that everybody in our audience knows very well Finovate. But let’s give us a little bit of an overview of what the event is and especially how it evolved during the years. Because what I see is that you guys are around from quite some years, actually.

Greg, maybe you want to tell us something about the show. Yeah, no, absolutely. Happy to.

So you’re right. We have been doing these Finovate events for a little while now. And one of the things that really sets our shows apart from the others is the demo, the emphasis on live demos.

We put innovative companies on stage and we give them seven minutes to show their latest technology. No slides allowed, no canned video allowed. Really, we ask the demoers to show their technology functioning in as close to a real-world environment as we can get within the confines of our hotel ballroom.

So that’s what’s really allowed us to continue to grow. We have had the European event in London for most of the years we’ve been running it. We did do a version in Berlin shortly before the pandemic.

And when I say shortly before, I mean like two weeks before everything kind of shut down in 2020. And we came back into London last year for our first live event in Europe since the pandemic. And we were really blown away by the number of people, just the amount of energy that we had in the space, some really cool technologies on display.

And also it was really fun just having everybody back in the room again. The audience was clearly up for it. Everybody was just bouncing off the walls to connect with each other.

And this year, we’re going to be building off of that momentum. We’re going back to the same venue, which is really close to the O2 Arena, for those of you who are in London. And we’ve got a great lineup of presenting companies, demoing companies, I should say, and speakers as well.

So all things told, it’s going to be a really fun event for us. We’ve got a couple of new pieces to try out this time around, which I’m sure we’ll talk about in just a moment. But it’s been really good for us to just see kind of the industry come back together after a couple of years of forced hiatus.

Nice. Great, Greg. And I have to say, your format is something very special, because I know so many founders that are actually super scared to get on that stage, like, I need to have my demo super perfectly running.

So it’s quite a thing within the industry. It is true that it can be a little bit scary. I just have to say one thing really quickly on that.

We do actually offer coaching and support for all the companies who come to our events. That’s something that I actually do myself. So while it is something that can be a little bit scary, I totally get that.

There are definitely ways you can make it a little bit more manageable. And we do try and put everybody in a position to succeed up there on stage. We don’t have any interest in watching somebody crash and burn.

So we like to give them all the support we can. Of course. Greg likes to mention to people, like, you know, please be kind, because it is a little bit scary to get on stage.

Greg, you didn’t tell people that you do turn off the mic, though. We do. Yes, that’s true.

If you hit the seven minute deadline, we do actually ring a bell. And if you keep going past the bell, we will cut the mic on you. I think our AV team particularly relishes this because they have to watch a lot of conferences where they have to hear people keep going.

And so for them, we put the responsibility in their hands. And I think it is something that they quite enjoy being like, ah, 7.05, time’s up, you’re done. And then it gets really awkward.

I have to come out and kind of usher them off stage. It’s actually probably my least favorite thing to do. Everybody else seems to enjoy it immensely, though.

So there we go. Yeah, you have to be quite well trained, actually, if you want to participate to Finov8. That’s definitely true.

So, Theo, what’s your, as I said before, you are quite a well-known face. I mean, you have participated to Finov8 as a speaker quite a lot of times. And so what’s your experience of the event? I think it’s like, what do we used to call it? I know Brad calls it the fun track, Disney line, but I like to call it as a Thanksgiving.

It’s like a Thanksgiving meal. Every time when we get together, you know, like how for all the holiday gatherings or audience in Europe, it’s like Christmas, getting together with family that you hadn’t seen for a long time. There’s always the, oh, hi, how are you doing, hugs and all of that, familiar faces.

And then you just kind of like, okay, all right, well, you know, we have some things we need to talk about. It says always drama, but good drama. And I have to say, I’ve been very lucky.

And thank you, Greg and Katie and everybody for welcoming me in a lot of the different shows. Because the one thing I love the most, and I don’t say this lightly, is the family. It’s literally like a family, seeing Greg and seeing everyone there, it’s like, my year does not complete without seeing these people.

And I think I love the show, it has evolved over the years. One of my favorites is always the all-star panel. Greg, you guys added that a few years ago with all the different analysts getting on the stage and give their time to talk about what are the trends, what are things that we need to pay attention to.

And my most favorite one coming out from a recent Finnebay last year was a all-star investor panel. It was on the last day, remember Greg, it was in the morning. And it was all women, all women VC panel.

And it was so packed. That’s quite impressive. Yes, that the hotel staff, I was watching from the balcony.

The hotel staff have to bring out rows of chairs because people were standing, it was standing room only. So it was impressive looking at all the women talking about the investing trends. We didn’t talk about diversity, they just talk about what everyone would be talking about in FinTech show.

Where is the money going? Where are people investing? What’s interesting? What’s not? And it was very, very well attended. So kudos to the Finnebay team for not just putting out amazing content, but also finding people with voices that others should really like pay attention to. Yeah, let’s let’s maybe double click on this.

So you said that they were all women, right? And many times we talk about women in the financial services only to talk about diversity, which I found it always very weird. So actually, next next month, I’m going to go to Africa to Nairobi to talk in a panel. They invited me in a panel to talk about diversity in the financial sector.

So I’m really like every time they ask for a woman, it’s because of that, which is I mean, we can talk about also other stuff. So I know that in Finnovate, you care a lot about diversity and to make sure that there is quite a high percentage of women speaking. And I know from our previous conversation that you have quite nice anecdotes of some conversation between you and Theo some years ago.

Probably she raised the right questions. Is that correct? Well, I think it wasn’t necessarily that she raised the right questions. We already were aware of it.

You know, I think this is one of those things where if you work in the financial technology space, particularly as a conference organizer, you are confronted with the reality of your speakers constantly because their pictures are up on your web page. You can see the names that are on the agenda. And Theo, we had a conversation at one of our New York shows several years back where I mean, basically, all Theo did was kind of take that picture and say, look, these are all of the men who are speaking at this event.

And so, you know, we had a we had a good conversation there. I think there was a collective airing of grievances. But this was something which we had been really looking at for a couple of years already.

And we had struggled, as you can probably imagine, to get to this sort of 50-50 gender split amongst our speaker faculty. Now, a couple of things have happened since then. We’ve continued to prioritize this, but we’re also finding that there are more women to choose from when we look at our speaker pool.

So that is potentially some positive momentum there from within the industry. But it’s also something that we’re really aware that we have a position. We have a little bit of, well, we have a literal stage that we can put people on.

And so for us, being able to elevate people and elevate certain voices onto that stage is something which we care passionately about. Now, with the speakers that we pick, that we have control over, we do have a 50-50 male-female gender balance up on our stage. We had one last year for Finnebit Europe as well.

It’s something that we’re going to continue to strive for. But part of it was, you know, this conversation that I had with Theo, where she pushed us just a little bit. And I think that was a good timing for that push.

It was also just really validating to say, hey, somebody else is noticing this, too. Other people care about this. And it really just cemented the fact that that was something that we needed to focus on.

Theo, I don’t know. How do you remember that conversation? I think it was ultimately a very positive one. But at the time, I mean, it was a little bit spicy.

It was interesting. I think there were people around us that kind of just backed away. It was a very animated conversation.

Let’s put it this way. You were passionate, Theo. That’s it.

I still am very passionate. I recently wrote an article called Diversity of Socks, because I noticed a conference, which I did not participate, but I ended up getting dozens of pictures from people that said, oh, look at this. There was more diversity of sock colors than there were diversity of faces.

You know, fast forward 2023, we’re still where we are. But going back to where I was saying, I very much and I don’t say this lightly. I very, very, very much appreciate how intentional the effort has been on behalf of the Finnovate team.

It’s not easy. I think for those of us who sit at, you know, like the audience and look up like, oh, come on, you know, there’s got to be women. There’s got to be people from underrepresented communities.

There’s got to be different faces you can put on there. We could see it because it’s easy to see, but there are a lot of challenges in the back. I think one of the pushbacks I often get from conferences is, well, you know, we need to put faces who are familiar to others so that they can attract people.

So why do you actually what do you think is the problem? Because as you said, there are a lot of challenges as an event organizer, because I’m sure that many times it’s not that we don’t want people to go on stage, but it’s very hard to find sometimes. So what do you think? It’s a real problem. They don’t look enough.

There are not many women in high positions. What’s the deal? So it depends on who you ask, right? And I think it can be overcome. It’s not we can put rockets in space.

I’m sure we can find people on stage, but it’s a matter of intentional. So I go back to being intentional. What I’ve seen the Finn of A-Team does is they’re very intentional in asking others, who else do you recommend? What would you like to put on stage, right? That’s the number one thing is ask others, because you can’t keep going back to your little black book and say, well, you know, here are the people that we had last year.

Let’s go back and invite these people. It doesn’t work that way. And I think the other part is, which I often get people saying, well, you know, they’re not well known.

Well, someone has to start from somewhere. I remember the reason why I love the Finn of A-Team so much. And Greg, I don’t know if you remember this.

The first time, my first ever speaking engagement was with Finn of A-Team, Finn of A-Europe. Actually, that was when you guys did it in Excel. And you were really far away.

Yeah, it was a while ago. And all the way. And I remember this.

It wasn’t because I had spoken before in Fintech. I never did. I did a bunch of reports.

I did a bunch of stuff. But I never got on stage to talk about Fintech. And at that time, you know, the team that was before Katie, they said, well, you know, Theo, you should come on stage.

And I was like, wow, okay. And that is the difference, I think, is to find different voices and put them on stage, regardless of whether or not they have spoken in 15 other events. And I think that is the key part, is to give someone the first chance.

Yeah, that’s very much true. Also, you know, you give some freshness also to the content of the conference. Because at a certain point, if we are always the same circle of people, why should we come to the conference, right? Yeah, one thing I can just kind of chime in on here as well.

And Theo, I don’t know if this was your experience, but I think frequently, you know, I host the Finn of A podcast. I work with a lot of demoing companies who come across our stage. And I’m constantly confronted by people who are really interesting, maybe have really interesting things to say, but they don’t necessarily know that they’re interesting.

They don’t know that they have something or a unique angle to say. And I think one of the challenges, which I embrace wholeheartedly, is looking at people and saying, what is your story? What do you have to share that other people can’t share? And I think this is one of those things where all of us, this is a human problem. All of us kind of think, well, the things that I know are obvious things.

Other people, I’m sure, know them. Other people know these experiences. We tend to sort of assume other people are smarter, have more expertise than ourselves.

And this really manifests in parts of the population, which have been categorically excluded from some of these opportunities to demonstrate their expertise. And so a lot of what we try and do is find people who we know have those interesting stories and elevate them and put them up on that stage. One of the other challenges that we have with an event like Finn of A, with any event really, to some extent, when you run an event like this, you’re kind of holding up a mirror to the industry that your event is in.

You’re basically saying, here is the state of the industry. These are the companies that are doing interesting things. These are the trends within the industry that people are really working on right now.

Here’s the learnings that some of our senior leaders have undergone. And part of that reflection is, a current snapshot of where we are from a tech standpoint. Part of it is from a social standpoint.

And so this is where you can say, you can hold up a mirror and say, some really uncomfortable realities in that mirror. Well, that means that there’s uncomfortable realities in real life, right? And so what we’ve really tried to do is say, where can we find, not necessarily, we’re going to still show a proper representation of where the industry is, but we’re going to try and really zoom out on that mirror and say, okay, well, where else can we find, can we angle it just slightly differently? Can we broaden it a little bit and pull some of these voices in? And one of the things that I think that’s been really gratifying for us is that we obviously track speaker scores at the end of the events. We like to know which sessions were more popular, which sessions where people thought maybe less interesting.

And as we’ve made this a priority, trying to create a more inclusive stage, our speaker scores have not suffered at all. They have continued to go up. And so the idea that you have to sacrifice something in order to bring certain voices in is categorically false.

It really does give people something new to think about. And Theo, I loved your point. We put an investor panel up there that was completely female.

We didn’t talk about it at all, because why do you need to talk about it? That’s not why they’re up there. And this is one of those challenges for us, because on the one hand, we want to be able to sort of say, hey, check this out. There’s this really cool thing that we’re doing.

We’re trying really hard here. On the other hand, you kind of have to play it cool, because you can’t make a too big of a deal out of it, or else you kind of undercut the very message that you’re trying to support. So I really appreciate the opportunity to come on a show like this and kind of talk about some of these things, because there is a lot of work that goes into it on the back end.

And it’s something which, again, our entire team is really passionate about. And it’s really good to see that these speakers are coming and they’re doing well. They’re sharing insights that the audience is really enjoying.

And I’m sure we’re going to see another round of it in London, where we have a great speaker lineup. We’ve got some really good experts who are both male and female. And at the end of the day, hopefully the audience doesn’t even really notice.

Yeah, maybe, Greg, we can actually give a little bit of a sneak preview of some topics and cool stories that the audience is going to see in March. What do you think? Can you give us something you’re cooking? Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, obviously, the content that everybody’s always interested in prior to the event is what are the demos going to be talking about? What are the innovators going to be working on? And we’ve got a good group of companies who are set to take the stage.

We’re actually still signing a couple more, so there will be some additions from here. But we’re pulling in companies from all over the world and from a wide variety of sources. And also, we have very different company ages.

Our oldest company that we’re going to see was founded in 1988. And the most recent one was founded in 2023. So, really quite a variety there and a big variety in terms of the subject matter.

But some key areas that we’re seeing, we’re seeing a lot of people in the risk management and the compliance space. Obviously, this continues to be a pain point for financial institutions. We’re seeing a lot of companies coming to us with small business solutions.

Another group who I think it’s been pretty widely documented, really struggled in the pandemic and in the aftermath of the pandemic. And so, it’s really good to see some solutions really targeted at that community and trying to ease some of the pain points there. We’re also seeing kind of the ever-present as well, user experience, which covers so many different channels, this kind of cross channel, whether I’m calling in, whether I’m engaging through the website or a mobile app or things like that.

There continues to be some really good progress there. But the most interesting one for us, we’ve actually started this year offering scholarships for companies who are active in some of the areas within FinTech that we want to support. So, this will be the first year that we’ll have some scholarship winners up there on stage.

And we have… So, what do they get as a scholarship? They get a free demo. They get to come and demo for free in front of the audience. So, we’ve got an environmentally focused scholarship.

We’ve got a socially focused scholarship. We have a female-founded company scholarship. And the idea really is just, again, to make the show accessible to some of these companies who are doing really good things that we want to encourage.

And also, hopefully, to kind of give the industry a push by just sort of saying to everybody in the room, hey, this is what’s possible. This is where you could be pointing your technology. And if we’re able to, by elevating some of these companies, able to spur more of those conversations, then we’ll consider that to be really successful.

But I’m excited to see how our scholarship winners equip themselves up there on stage. It’s something which is really, really fun for us to be able to do. And we’ll be continuing to do it at the rest of our 2023 events as well.

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And we are back to the show. Again, talking about Finnovate Europe. Again, it’s going to be next month in March 14th and 15th of March in London.

Still here with Theo and Greg. So guys, in the first part of the episode, we tackle some of the key points of the conference and especially some key points you are really much, you are caring very much. And another one, another topic that I would really like you to talk about is the sustainability side.

So I know at Finnovate, you care a lot also about this and I know you are making quite an effort to make the event fully sustainable. So Greg, maybe you can explain us how you are doing that. Yeah, well, it certainly is something that we care a lot about.

And so what we do, a lot of the pieces that we do are relatively basic, but still hopefully pretty effective. We have eliminated passing out printed booklets. We’ve turned everything into digital.

So it’s all available through your phone or laptop when you’re on site. We really strongly discouraged our sponsors and our demoers from passing out physical items at their booths. I think a lot of times those items end up just in landfills.

And so it’s one of those things where if we can help reduce the waste there, that’s obviously a really good thing as well. There’s also this other side of a sustainable FinTech ecosystem. And this is another area that we really prioritize because if you don’t have young companies who are kind of challenging the status quo, then the industry itself suffers, right? You need that group of people to come in and you need this constant refreshing, these people who bring new ideas in.

And so we really do our best to support those companies as well through a new program that we call the Startup Booster, which is open to companies that are still very early on in their funding. We want to get them into the event. We want to let them see where the bar is from a demo company standpoint.

We also want to connect them with interested venture capitalists who can help take them to that next level. And our ultimate goal here is to ensure a healthy ecosystem in the long term where there continue to be new challengers coming in and pushing some of the incumbents to do better. And if there are opportunities, to go and exploit those opportunities.

And ultimately, this is kind of how the entire industry moves forward. So not only is it the environmental sustainability side, but it’s the industry sustainability side that we’re really focused on as well. Yeah, definitely.

And Theo, about this, what’s your experience? So Greg was talking about giving the opportunity to new startups and fresh startups to get connected with the right people and get access to capital. I know that part of your job is also connecting the two parties. So what’s your experience in that? I think it’s actually an interesting discussion.

Greg, did you remember a couple of years ago, we used to invite accelerators to bring their startups on stage? I think at one point, that was one of them. There were like five, six different accelerators and they bring different startups on stage and give them the stage time to talk about normally what they would pitch investors. And I think those things are really important because if you think about barriers to entry, right? Barriers to entry, not just from a price point, attending a conference perspective, but also how do you find people? Recently, I saw someone posted on Twitter, says, hey, I want to get started on FinTech.

I don’t know where to start. I don’t know how to start, right? So these events, they give a front door view of here are the big trends. Here are the people.

This is what people are talking about. This is where the money is going. And I think this is all part of helping to grow that ecosystem because things change all the time.

And one of the things that some people like to say is everything is FinTech, well done. How do we go about changing and impacting the quote unquote FinTech industry so that it works for more people? So inclusion definitely has to be part of that viability, long-term sustainability. How do we include different aspects of what’s happening in society? Greg, earlier we were talking about, you know, the show being a mirror to the society, right? You look at it, you’re like, okay, well, this reflects what’s happening in the world.

So what are some of the trends that people care about? And the startups, they need to be part of that to hear that. Yeah, definitely. Also because many times, you know, an event like that, such a big event can be a bit overwhelming for a lot of startups that are going there for the first time and say, okay, what should I do? I do my demo and then what? With whom can I connect? What should I do? And it’s, I know it’s not that easy.

That’s why also the networking part, it’s something that it’s quite crucial for an event like this also to maximize the chances of connections and success. Maybe Greg, you can tell us something also about that. What are you planning to do? I know you are doing something new on the side of networking.

What is it about? Yeah, we’ve got a couple of new initiatives this time around. There’s one that I think should be really fun though, which I’m excited about. We’re gonna kick off one of the networking sessions with a FinTech game show that we’re gonna try out called Hot or Not.

Theo is actually gonna be a participant in this. Do you know that, Theo, that you are gonna be there? Are you ready? I am born ready. Oh, you’ll be great, honestly.

So what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna have our panel of contestants who will take some themes within FinTech and then they’ll have to argue that that aspect of FinTech is either hot or it’s not, as the name would suggest. At the end of each kind of mini debate, our audience is actually gonna have signs that say hot or not, so the audience will vote based on how persuasive the arguments were from stage. So for example, we might start off and say, okay, hot or not in FinTech, free drinks at networking and happy hour at FinTech conferences.

Presumably the hot crowd would probably win that one. But it should be a really fun way to kind of tackle some of these themes within FinTech in a lighthearted way, but also I think it’d be really interesting to see what our audience says about which trends they view as hot, which trends they view as maybe not being as interesting. So there will definitely be a fun couple of minutes there, but also it will yield some really interesting results because in some cases, the industry, as Theo said, can move very quickly.

And something which is a really interesting topic one year might no longer be that interesting to people in the audience the next. And so we’ll have somebody at least write down which ones the audience said were hot or not. And I think it’s gonna be fascinating to see.

So I think that should be a really fun one as well. And Theo, thank you in advance for participating in that. I know it’s gonna be a really good session with you in it as well.

You’re welcome. As long as the audience is not allowed to throw anything on stage, I’m game. I did one with a health tech event.

It was after dark, it was similar. You had a panel of people. And we had a lot of squishy toys.

You know, the stress balls. Oh, no. Yeah, that.

I think I see where you’re going. Exactly. So as long as you’re telling the exhibitors, do not give out free stress balls.

Yeah, okay. Then you should be fine. That’s very nice.

You guys are thinking about all these new ways to connect people and get people engaged. So it should be really a nice event. We are all looking forward to be there together.

I have one last question for you both. So one for Greg, which is that we said that there are a lot of companies going on stage doing their demo. Some more experienced, some not really experienced at their first experience.

So if you have to give a couple of advices to them, so they have still one month to get ready, which one would that be? Yeah, no, it’s actually a very timely question because I’m right now in the process of working with all the companies who are going to be up there. And so even companies who are experienced and have technology that has been out for a long time, sometimes still struggle with this format. This is actually part of the reason that I now offer demo coaching outside of Finnovate.

It’s something which if you’re interested in learning more about that, look me up on LinkedIn or reach out to me, Greg at finnovate.com. It is a passion of mine. But I think the biggest thing that I would say to companies who are going to be participating is to kind of take a step back from your own technology, take a step back from what you want to show and think about it from the standpoint of the person on the other end, who’s in the audience, that person you really want to connect with. Why do they need to come and talk with you? And what’s in it for them basically? What’s the value proposition? And so distilling your message down to something that’s going to be really accessible, really interesting for people on the other end, keeping it less about yourself and more about them is really important.

And then also looking at the urgency, looking at the why now, why is this something which you can’t afford to wait on any longer? And I think if you come to enough of these kinds of events, the kiss of death for a demo at Finnovate is not we don’t like the technology. It’s, oh, that’s really interesting, but I’ve got too many other priorities right now that I can’t afford to look at that one aspect. Maybe I’ll come back to it in a couple of years.

And that’s really difficult. And I think this is a really big problem in the FinTech space in general, because so far a lot of financial institutions haven’t really been punished too much for waiting a couple of years, being slow to adopt some of these technologies. And it’s up to the FinTech companies who are up on stage to articulate, here’s why you need to act now.

Here’s what that opportunity cost is if you fail to take action here. And so looking at it from that standpoint, you can see it’s quite a challenge for the companies who are gonna be up on stage, even just articulating these kind of two basic sides of it. Why should you care? And why do you need to move now are really difficult questions.

And every company up on our stage needs to be prepared to answer those questions, or else they’re gonna struggle to get the audience’s attention. Of course. And many times I think many teams are quite too technical, while on the other side, you don’t have the same, you don’t have people talking the same language.

So you have to translate it to the business. So Theo, what’s your advice for the startups? I completely wholeheartedly agree on what Greg say. And by the way, he never, he didn’t mention this yet on the show.

He does talk about dad jokes. And it’s a way to break the ice if you think about it, right? Is to help ease people. You do that a lot, Greg.

And it’s fun to watch. I think the one thing that really resonates what Greg just said is, think about the person on the other end, right? You’re not there to sell you solution. You are there to help solve someone’s problem.

So what is it that is on top of people’s mind right now? What are the problems that they wanna solve? And how do you go about helping them instead of saying, hey, this is me, come pay attention to me. So turn that around and have fun. Part of that job is to entertain the crowd.

It’s a very weird way of thinking about it. But if you’re just there and you’re really boring and you’re just talking to the script, no one is going to pay attention to you. And it’s also, how long is a pitch? Five minutes.

Seven minutes. Seven minutes. So it’s like, come on, seven minutes of your life.

It’s nothing basically. Get that energy up. Have that extra cup of coffee.

I don’t wanna alarm anybody with some potentially earth shattering news, but FinTech can actually get a little bit dry. It turns out. So if you don’t go out and actually figure out- Why you say that? We always want to talk about anti-fraud mechanism and so on.

Come on. I wake up with that in mind. Go to a party.

And as I always tell people, if you’re gonna up on stage, how would you explain to a group of people you just met at a party, what it is you do for a living? And it’s usually very, very different how people would say it in that statement versus how they would do it at an industry conference. And I’m like, well, you need to bring more of that in. And Theo, you’re spot on.

You need to have the energy. You need to make it- It doesn’t necessarily have to be entertaining, but you have to demonstrate that you care. You have to appear on stage as though you’re passionate about your own technology.

Because if you’re not interested from stage, why am I gonna be interested as an audience member? Definitely. And again, we’ll see. I think, as I said, we’ve got a really good crop of demos this time around.

I think they’re gonna do a really good job. I would encourage anybody who’s interested, come on out and see them for yourself. Get a sense of where the industry is at.

And we’d love to have you there and we’d love to have you take it all in for yourself. Yeah, I’m definitely curious to see all this lineup of amazing companies. So thanks a lot, guys.

I’m really happy that I will be able to come and see myself what’s going on in London on 14th and 15th of March. Thanks a lot, Greg. Thanks a lot, Theo.

See you very soon. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much.

Thank you. And of course, thank you very much to our audience. Remember to follow Breaking Banks Europe on all streaming platforms and social media.

And see you next week. But most important, see you in one month in London at Finnovate Europe. Ciao.

That’s it for another week of the world’s number one fintech podcast and radio show, Breaking Banks. This episode was produced by a US-based production team, including producer Lisbeth Severins, audio engineer Kevin Hirsham, with social media support from Carlo Navarro and Sylvie Johnson. If you like this episode, don’t forget to tweet it out or post it on your favorite social media.

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