Show Hosts:
Brett King
Katie King
Dave Birch

Show Guests:
John McAfee

[Intro] 
 
Financial technology or fintech is one of the fastest growing industries in the world today with New York, London, Tel Aviv, Edinburgh, Singapore, Moscow, and other major cities all buy in for a piece of the action. Welcome to breaking banks. The first dedicated radio show that focuses on how this new boom is changing everything from the way we bank to the very concept of money itself. Now here’s your host, Brett King.  
 
Brett King: Hey guys welcome back to breaking banks this week. It’s our seventh anniversary edition and we have all the gang here. We have with us Dave Birch a long time my cohost and the author of the, let me get this right, the new book that you’ve [00:44 inaudible] “the currency cold war: Cash and cryptography, hash rates and hegemony. Is that right? 


Dave Birch: That’s clever, right? 


John McAfee: That’s very clever. Hash rates and hegemony. 


Brett King: Joining us also is miss metaverse, Katie Schultz. 

Katie King: Oh hi.


Brett King: Thanks for coming back on the show. And of course our special guest this week is John MacAfee. John, welcome to breaking banks. 


John McAfee: Thanks for having me, Brett. I’m happy to be here. Since I saw everybody’s science fiction background, I know I’m going to be at home here. 


Brett King: Absolutely. Very good. So first of all, how are you coping with the whole corona virus thing, john? 


John McAfee: Poorly and very poorly. I’m agitated, I am agitated to sheep who are just blindly following, a fear tactic of the media and the confusion of world governments who, if this is not a knee jerk reaction to a problem that I don’t know what it is. I mean, within a matter of days, America went from things are kind of okay to congress passing a $2 trillion [01:55 inaudible] anyway, $2.2 trillion of money that they sort of pulled out of thin air and shut down half of the world’s economy, literally shut it down for almost two months in some places. The ripple effects from this are going to be felt for years. And I think in some industries, airlines, these people got to pay billions of leases or whether they carry passengers or not. Landlords, I mean, listen communism is creeping in California where towns and counties are passing laws, emergency laws. So repeal them in six months, I don’t think. So they are saying renters [02:42 inaudible]. And see people think that landlords are these great corporations, massive towers of apartments and [02:52 inaudible] people on full time jobs. And they happen to save their money, get a mortgage and buy a second house, so they rent out or a third. They really have a small apartment complex of three or four units, or even a duplex, these people, I mean, what are they going to do?  You think the bank’s going to go, listen, I can’t pay this month rent, don’t worry about it. I probably won’t for six months because the [03:16 inaudible], banks won’t say, well, my heart goes out to you. 


Brett King: We are going to foreclose. But we are going to foreclose anyway. 


John McAfee: But we really feel for you and you can come visit the place whenever you want. I mean, if this is going to be, seriously I’m 74 years old. I have never seen anything remotely, as frightening as what’s happening today. When I say frightening, I don’t mean frightened by the pharmacy. It doesn’t scare me in the least, but now it’s frightening.


Brett King: It’s unprecedented. And what’s ironic is that the market had, yesterday very good numbers. I know we’re prerecording this. And so here you go. You’ve got this disconnect between an economy that is in tethers, falling apart and the stock markets going, yep, we are okay. No worries. 


John McAfee: Prior to the stock market crash in 1929, there was a [04:17 inaudible] of amazing proportions. I mean, people, I have no explanation for the emotional psychological factors that [04:29 inaudible]. But it is not right.


Brett King: There is a point here where, and cryptocurrency comes into this. We’re definitely going to get into that. But there has been massive inequality. That’s been clear, particularly in economies like the united states, you’ve got this disparity and right now, of course as you pointed out, people who have money are still making money.  There’s reports that the wealth of billionaires has gone up during this crisis. Not down.


John McAfee: The wealth of what? 


Brett King: The wealth of billionaires has gone up during this crisis. 


John McAfee: Yeah. But how many of the world is a billion.


Brett King: Right, exactly. And so, do you think there’s, we bandy around this term socialism, but is part of this sort of a social awakening of humanity that we need to care for ourselves better as a species we need to care for the earth, or is it just more division? 


John McAfee: I think we care for ourselves as a species, which is educating part of that education I think should be you are pretty much on your own in this world. If you’re going to be honest, mean truly honest with your children, [05:47 inaudible] you don’t sit them down and say, you are going to have to learn some very hard lessons. Number one, you can trust no one. Not your wife, not your kids, not your mother., history has proven, when in Rome. [06:01 inaudible] either your wife, your mother, your brother, or your son someplace, we know you cannot trust anyone except yourself. But if you’re going to trust yourself, you then have to take responsibility for all your decisions, which is something that we don’t teach our children. So I don’t think we help society by giving people a loaf of bread or letting them not pay the rent for six months. I think we owe the society by instilling the values that created this great society and not just America [06:39 inaudible] world. We have conquered fires, the ocean, storms, the air, the [06:49 inaudible] and yet we ourselves remain unconquered by ourselves. So we are all just a bunch of children that wandering around going well, you don’t have to worry [07:01 inaudible], people who have experienced true tragedies, like at the end of wars in Germany in the world war, literally they had 10 billion-mark notes printed. 10 billion-mark notes, and then the end you couldn’t buy a [07:22 inaudible]. 


Brett King: Like in Zimbabwe. 


John McAfee: Yes and you think it can’t happen in America or Europe? People wake up. We all think we’re immune. It won’t happen to me. The teenager, when I’m in love, I’m 16, I want to get married. Listen you are 16, the chances of this lasting for a year is about 1 in a 100,000. [07:47 inaudible]. Nobody is especial. No one is immune. The laws of human behavior and human interaction, our desires and fears, thy are universal people, sorry, you are not special. And yet we think we are, we’re in America. It isn’t going to happen [08:09 inaudible] the most powerful country in the world. I’m sorry. I’m taking the stage. 


Brett King: No, no, that’s fine. That’s why you are here. 


Katie King: It’s like George Carlin. They call it he American dream because they got to be asleep to believe in it. 


John McAfee: That’s a beautiful thing, that is in fact the case. I would take another one from the watchmen, whoever the comedian was.
He goes, whatever happened to the American dream. And he goes, [08:45 inaudible] and this is people are going to wake up to a hellish rheology in six months and go, it is this what we had intended? I reckon not.


Brett King: There’s a perception that this is obviously affecting poor. And in the united states, there’s some evidence to suggest that, particularly in the southern states, that African Americans have been hit harder by coronavirus. But of course the lack of universal healthcare in the us adds to that pain. So whichever way you look at this, the low to middle income households in the us are really going to be in a deep hole. 


John McAfee: When you say getting hit hard by corona virus, I mean the infection? 


Brett King: Economically, both. 


John McAfee: Because you don’t want to talk about infections. I mean, I spent a month digging into numbers. You are not going to like what I have to say. So don’t say that. [09:36 inaudible] of course who suffers in every economic collapse first. I mean, this is the rule of thumb, which has existed since we came out of caves 50,000 years ago


Katie King: Information is all over the place too. There is an information war, at the same time there’s a culture war happening at the same time. It’s people want to know what’s happening. But the reality is the mainstream media says they just put up a bunch of different narratives out there. And a lot of people just see what they, what the headlines say, it’s surface value. And when you connect all the dots and you look at the data and you think critically, it tells a totally different story.


John McAfee: That’s the only point. No, there’s no connection at all. I mean, listen, if anybody is [10:28 inaudible] this is the mainstream media, [10:30 inaudible] any channel. It’s the number of [10:33 inaudible] times the amount of time those eyeballs are glued to you prior to this lockdown, we spent eight or nine hours at work where you didn’t watch much television during that time. We went on weekends on dates or to the movies, or we go to parks with our kids or we just got drunk. Now, what are we doing? 24 hours a day we’re stuck in front of this television. We’re [10:53 inaudible] where they’re valued, their net future value, because this is one of these babituated [11:00 inaudible]. Now who is saying the fearful things, the media. They go, oh, the numbers, horrible, staggering. But let’s look at the numbers. [11:12 inaudible] the number of world deaths, according to who and John Hopkins was 234,000 [11:21 inaudible] that’s a horrific number. No, [11:26 inaudible] I’m sorry. [11:28 inaudible]. There are 7.8 billion people on this planet. Doctors have for hundreds of years described the mortality and the [11:40 inaudible] the rate of how much of the population we are going to lose right?  So [11:49 inaudible] 7.8 billion. And so we’ve lost 1 person in 50,000. 


Dave Birch: It’s an interesting, sorry to [12:00 inaudible]. It’s an interesting, I mean, none of us are epidemiologists, but we can all read the numbers at a very gross level. So for example, in the UK, we’ve lost, I think heading towards 30,000 people, excess mortality.


John McAfee: Out of a 112 million population of my friend. 


Dave Birch: So the excess mortality figures will probably be in the region of 50,000 by the time we’d be able to control. But I can see why people are beginning to be a little frustrated because the median voter is not going to die from it. So in other words, the way the statistics work broadly speaking is if you catch the virus, your chance of dying from it is approximately the same. I mean, within statistical bounds, approximately the same as your chance of dying within the next year anyway. So for somebody like me, my chance of dying in the next year, let’s say it’s 1%. So if I catch the virus, my chance of dying is 1%. It’s just, I’m going to die in the next two weeks, not across the next year. So what that means is for most people, most people that get it are not going to die from it. So we have to have an intelligent tradeoff between the excess mortality figures that are going to come from this and the kind of economic impact. And this is where I think some people feel a little angry because I kind of feel from a reasonably intelligent perspective for most companies, most organizations, most people that did proper risk analysis, some form of pandemic has been the number one item in the risk register for global companies for probably the last decade. I mean, it’s not like nobody knew this was going to happen. It’s not liked some black swan. I mean, people had it in their risk registers, but the planning was, I don’t know, I don’t know.


Brett King: The planning sort of went out the window though. Right?


Dave Birch: There’s a great difference between countries that suffered from SARS and MERS and took their risk management seriously and their pandemic planning seriously and countries that didn’t. So if you look at what’s happened in places like Korea, it’s on the control. 


Brett King: Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong. 


Dave Birch: Because they know what to do when this sort of things happens. 


John McAfee: Let me give you a counter argument. 


Brett King: Give us a counter argument.


John McAfee: Let me give you a counter argument. I think the greatest one is japanning. The most, one of the most densely packed countries in the world in Tokyo, the world’s largest city where they did not lock down anything, they declared a state of emergency, why? International pressure. Did they do anything? No. Not a single law was changed. People are going about their business. And there are still images of people being shoved, literally shoved into subways, which is what they do, to get all the people in there. Do you know what Tokyo’s total deaths has been and they were one of the first infected, 93 people, look it up. New York, which has only 8 million population, it has 14,000. Now I’m a statistician. And [15:09 inaudible] the reason that I’ve won the virus war, with the antivirus software, I had 86% of the world [15:18 inaudible] before I left the company was, I understood how computer viruses were transmitted, what the impediments of transmission were, what the speed of transmission and how deadly were they? In other words how much damage are they going to do? The reason that we won is because we were getting 50 viruses, new viruses every day, nobody could keep up with them. So I’d have the, first thing I’d have my team do is, you tell me how fast this spreads, mark the damage and the ones that spread slow and did no damage, we ignore totally. Ones that spread slow and did a small amount of damage depending on whatever else we had to do there. Once it spread fast and did a lot of damage to were very few of them, the ones that we’ve worked on and we abandoned the rest. So statistically, if you analyzed our [16:08 inaudible] against Norton and Microsoft, we, who’s the number one product because in testing in live environments, we’d beat the crap out of the virus. So I do know a little bit about the mathematics of spreading I promise you. 


Dave Birch: Obviously. I mean, a lot of people I think with good reason, say that, well, the slow spread in japan actually [16:30 inaudible] as much as other places. So, but has a lot to do with kind of social practices. Because a lot of people, as soon as they read about. 


Brett King: They were wearing masks. 


John McAfee: I’m sorry. I’m really sorry. Please go online and look at the videos of people cramming into subways, half with no masks, you’re in physical contact, face to face. This is not just people of virus that can be transmitted through the air. I mean, you can transfer it through touch, something through four days. Depending upon the cardboard, it will last for 60 hours. On a smooth counters, which is [17:10 inaudible] you can touch it, touch your face and you are infected. So please, I’m not buying that. And the reason I’m not buying it is because there is something funny about the numbers, New York city, 14,000, you understand that per population in New York city has 250 times as many deaths and there’s part of those statistics. Now, if you look at it, the united states is incentivizing people diagnosing the corona virus. Why? You get $39,000, $39,000 every time you write on a piece of paper, is it pneumonia? Is it the flu? Because there are tons of lower respiratory tract infections out there. And I go, well, let’s see. I don’t know. But if I do put down corona virus, I guess $39,000, now you might say, nobody would do anything with that [18:05 inaudible].


Brett King: They kicked dying people out of emergency room. So yeah.


Katie King: It’s coming from the top down though. [18:14 inaudible]. 


Brett King: It’s a federal initiative.


John McAfee: The federal government. It’s part of this $2 trillion bailout package. We’re going to help doctors and hospitals. We’ve got a serious pandemic here. Which we don’t people, we got a serious pandemic here. We’re going to give $39,000 to every hospital to help them cope with this only for coronavirus patients, for everybody else, you don’t get anything. [18:45 inaudible]. 


Dave Birch: But hospital income is roughly half over the last month hasn’t it? 


John McAfee: You can leave as you wish. Please look at the numbers. So New York had 14,000, [19:03 inaudible] 13,000 for the original diagnosis. So it’s really $53,000 for every person that dies from coronavirus. So you take, I’m saying $50,000 [19:17 inaudible] times $14,000. Now that’s a lot of money. Now that is just for the dying. If you diagnose someone and they don’t die. Well, you don’t get the extra. [19:29 inaudible] so if you want to believe by the way, and these numbers that are reported by hospitals and other things, you know, for a fact, you’ve got an account. I mean, if you know anything about accounting, you’re not going to know until the end of the month or after you’ve run all the numbers and it’s garbage when they say hospitals are losing money. How can they be if they’re overflowed and they’re getting 60 times as much money, as long as they diagnose coronavirus and everybody’s dying from coronavirus. 


Dave Birch: That’s what I’m curious about. Cause a friend of mine was saying the hospital where his friend works, they think cutting the doctor’s salaries and cutting back their hours. 


John McAfee: Those hospitals. Yes, absolutely. Because in America it’s a media charade.  They will jam one hospital, people are waiting and dying. But the other 50 are empty. 


Brett King: We’ve seen that in New York. Cause we sit on the FDR and seen the ambulance going north all the time.


John McAfee: Every single city in the world that’s locked down has something like that. It’s either a political agenda where you’re trying to discredit the opposition in some way, shape or form or it’s economic. But let me listen to this people. The six most heavily locked down countries in the world, let me name it for you. England, the united states, Italy, Spain, France, and Germany account for 7% of the population. Run these numbers, if you doubt me. But 71% of the world’s deaths, whereas in countries that have been locked down and by the way, if we point to Sweden, Sweden’s on lockdown. They have 2,200 deaths. They also got a population of 10 million people. And Sweden is as far north, as you can get almost [21:34 inaudible] in Europe. And the coronavirus is like the flu, the most cold weather, dies in the summer. So every year Sweden has 10 times the flu deaths as of anybody as does Tierra del Fuego, on the southern hemisphere. Now you can’t use that as an example. But if you add up the countries that have not locked down and their populations, you find that… You’ve got a hundred times the death rate. 


Brett King: The numbers don’t corelate.


Dave Birch: Like you say, you got to wait until the end of the year to do the accounting. But in your…. 


John McAfee: Not to end of the year. You’ve got to wait for a couple of months. So I’m saying no, to find out what happened in hospitals [22:21 inaudible]. 


Dave Birch: The point is you’re pretty [22:25 inaudible]. You’re pretty kind of [22:26 inaudible] what’s your kind of [22:28 inaudible] what’s the excess mortality going to look like? Is it 50,000 or is it going to be 500,000? 


John McAfee: [22:35 inaudible] in the us? No. Let me tell you, by the end, by May 24th, this is going to be gone. It’s a seasonal virus, like the flu and already please, I look at the statistics every hour, every hour. Why? Because I am going to refute the garbage that the mainstream media is spewing and the propaganda the governments are using to enrich their pockets and increase their power. So yes, I know. Tell me, ask me any country in the world, I’ll tell you their population and the number of deaths as of two o’clock today.


Dave Birch: So from outside the us, no, no. I’m genuinely curious. So, why is the us administration so kind of enthusiastic about the lockdown, wouldn’t they be more negative about it? 


John McAfee: Politics and power. [23:37 inaudible] this is all about power. They already have more powers than they need, nonsense. You never have too much power, like you never have too much money. No, please people. It’s a matter of the media scares you and they go, wait a minute, [23:54 inaudible] and when the sheep gets scared, what do they do? They look for a savior and the savior is the government. And they say, we will save you, lock yourselves down. And they go, how about that, and since they’re locked down, because in America. Do you know what laws have been passed in the past month? The federal bureau of investigation is no longer required to have a court order to arrest you. Neither do they have to charge you, neither do they have a time limit on how long they can keep you? They can keep you for the rest of your life without a court order, without a charge. Why? It’s an emergency. The law says only in the state of emergency. Who chooses the state of emergency? Think about it. So that’s one thing. A renters don’t have to pay rent. No, we have instituted draconian measures in America and Italy and Spain, and it will come to England I promise you. Why? Because [25:03 inaudible] look what they’re done in Latin America. They’ve gained power over the populace. Something that all dictators and leaders have longed for since the invention of [25:14 inaudible]. I hate to be so grading, but I promise you, Janice will tell you I have immersed 18 hours a day and the numbers, and you cannot possibly tell me a country or ask me a question I cannot give you the numbers for. And I can even tell you what the probability of those numbers being correct are based on any number of factors. So people I invented anti-virus software. Nobody knows the mathematics of epidemiology more than me. And I’m telling you people, this is [25:53 inaudible].


Brett King: That is very compelling. That’s very compelling. Let’s just take a quick break guys. So you listening to breaking your banks. We’re going to have a few words from our sponsors, and we’ll be right back after this break.


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You’re listening to breaking banks, featuring your host Brett king. To reach the show today, please call +1 866-472-5790, that’s +1 866-472-5790. Or join the conversation on twitter by using the hashtag breaking banks. Now back to the program


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Brett King: And we’re back from the break. You’re listening to breaking banks. We’re going out to 178 countries. The number one fintech radio show and podcasts in the world. We’ve got Dave Birch and miss metaverse joining us as co-hosts and our special guests for our seventh anniversary edition of breaking banks is John MacAfee. Now, john, we were talking during the break about will Durant’s lessons from history, the model, he talked about the fact that 90% of human history, more than 90% of human history has been essentially a feudal system. With the rich at the top of the pyramid, running the economies of the world to better themselves. And then the most successful economies in history, the Chinese economy of today, the us economy post-second world were more diamond shape where the middle class was very robust, a lot of consumption occurring, and economic growth. But those models seemed to be fairly unstable. Because the guys at the top, the 1% are always trying to gain the system. How’s this going to affect us over the next 40 to 50 years do you think in terms of economic development and the potential for 
Economic slavery here as a result of massive debt that will incur during this process. 


John McAfee: I’m the wrong man to ask, I’m 74. I’m standing on the far edge of life looking into the darkness folks and right over the horizon is my exit door. So I don’t really give much thought to what’s going to happen beyond maybe the next few years, and I’ll be lucky to survive that. So I cannot help you. I hope I think I can help you with the next few years. As I said, during break, this is a first in the history of the world where we have just shut down and nothing, we have produced nothing. We have serviced nothing. We have created nothing, and we are human species that have developed for 50,000 years through a series of changing societies and government structures and economies to evolve to a point where our global society runs pretty smoothly. I mentioned people starving in Africa. We got 12.5 million a year presented as your population.


Brett King: And it’s been coming down for 30 years. 


John McAfee: We are not faster. 


Dave Birch: It’s a little harsh to say we created nothing. I did some pretty good PowerPoint today. I can get it on the screen.

John McAfee: Whoa. I didn’t say we created nothing. I said, we created this society and this society is enormous and astonishing. But it is very fragile people.

Brett King: The system broke down, the system collapsed. 

John McAfee: It hasn’t collapsed yet. I think it will within a few months.
People are still getting food. People are still watching tv. There’s still electricity coming into your houses, nothings collapsed my friend.  But no one has experienced as an economist. Sociologists, they’re guessing [35:08 inaudible] because there is no [35:11 inaudible] that we can gather from. But I do know this, shutting down the world like we have done for June month is going to have the most drastic economic and social impacts. As you say, those have to talk [35:26 inaudible] and we may not be able to locate the [35:32 inaudible] I think our social structure is going to become chaotic and unpredictable. And certainly our financial structure, there will be no financial structure in six months. There will be nothing but chaos there. So what are we going to do? Is it every man for himself? Maybe not that bad, but if we do not stop this madness now, then it will be. I’ve lived for 74 years. I’ve seen more than most people and I promise you from my perspective, with my advance age, nobody is going to know what’s going to happen, but I promise you, it is going to be [36:17 inaudible] far worse than if we had not locked down, far worse than if a 100 million people had died from the corona virus. This lockdown is [36:30 inaudible] we’re looking at 12 million starving, 12.8 million last year, look it up, I have the numbers. And the jobs will not come back. And the deaths, I mean, [36:45 inaudible] 3 million people. So now that 3 million because of the unsanitary conditions or lack food is only going to 30 and the 12 million that’s going to do [37:03 inaudible]. You know this, if we do not stop this madness today, another two weeks, and I think young giving it up. You might as well buy guns and food. That’s all I can advise you for economic [37:20 inaudible]. 


Brett King: I do have my Elon Musk’s certified flame thrower on the shelf. 


John McAfee: No way. 


Brett King: I have a boring company, flame thrower near the door.  Just in case. 


John McAfee: Listen, now a flamethrower, I’ve never used a flamethrower [37:34 inaudible]. 


Brett King: It doesn’t have any fuel in it. [37:40 inaudible].


John McAfee: That’s kind of like having a gun locked up in a cabin in the house. So when the breaks in or and they’ve got to… Wait a minute, wait a minute, give me a second I am trying to [37:54 inaudible]. 


Brett King: I got to get a butane tank from amazon.


Katie King: Yeah. Well, here’s the thing, right. We’re being told right now that in six months there’s going to be meat supply shortages. And what happens, everyone’s now run out, this past week buying up all the meat, when the meat was there, you couldn’t find toilet paper, couldn’t get paper products, but I can’t get meat. Why? Because they’re saying that people are at risk if they go into the meat plants and it’s a risk to them and that we need to keep everyone safe and keep the meat plant workers home. So there go, meats done until who knows. And it’s going to keep going like this. They’re saying this could last another two years, they are just making it up as they go along. I’ve seen paper from the CDC. There’s a paper I believe from the CDC that’s being sent to these hospitals and picking up what John was saying earlier in the show that they’re getting 12,000 per patient and 24,000 if they get on a ventilator and then everyone needed ventilators, in New York.


John McAfee: Trust me. Its $39,000 if you’re on a ventilator, 13,000, if it’s just a diagnosis. I know these numbers.


Katie King: Maybe, it was maybe a week or two ago when I saw the numbers.  It changes. I feel like, the data’s changing by the day. But what they’re saying is that it depends on whether a, they are diagnosed, which there was also a bunch of news coming out saying that the tests themselves, somewhere actually contaminated with the Covid virus and b, if they are presumed to have the virus. So what does that mean? It’s actually in the paperwork saying if they presume, they have the symptoms.


John McAfee: Could that explain why New York has 250 times the death rate of Tokyo and I ran; it took me an entire day. I ran the 10 largest cities in the world, Tokyo, New Delhi, Mumbai, São Paulo, the 10 largest cities, Dacca and [40:14 inaudible] I ran the, I went on [40:18 inaudible] looked at the entire populations of each country,  adding them up, then I went on www.who.int, which is the world health organization’s statistical site. Got the death rates from country. And then I went on John Hopkins, which is our most respected medical research institution in America. And I have to cross reference all the numbers. They [40:43 inaudible] New York has 200 times the death rates of the 10 largest cities on this planet. 


Brett King: It kind [40:58 inaudible] us population density. It’s something else, right? 


John McAfee: Japan is less dense than New York, please, god. No, these are the largest cities in the world. All of them are more dense than New York city. Anybody comes up [41:12 inaudible]. So here’s the problem. People go, alright, I know what I know. And so when a fact that shows up, they contradict it, we reach something to contradict that fact, no, nothing can contradict it. Believe me.


Brett King: Well, so let’s get into crypto. How’s this all going to affect the currency world? 


John McAfee: That’s a very complex question. I mean, people go, everybody is getting jumped into crypto, no, why getting into crypto is not like opening a bank account. You’ve got to do some studying and you have to understand what it is, but you’ve got 13,000 different coins. You’ve got political alliances on bitcoin or piracy coins or what have you distributed exchanges. So people are not going to jump into it because it will take too long and people are already into [42:08 inaudible] and we’ve got all kinds of things happening. You’ve got the bitcoin [42:11 inaudible] coming up sometime in January, precisely. I suspect the 12th or 13th of this month. This is going to cause a massive rise on [42:23 inaudible and then a massive collapse. Why? I ran the six largest bitcoin mining company in the world, NTT, the New York stock exchange and market cap of $800 million. We had 6,000 [42:42 inaudible] running, 24 hours a day cranking out [42:47 inaudible] when this having comes, first of all, there’s going to be a [42:53 inaudible] I never even looked at price of bitcoin. It’s a garbage coin. No one in the world should be using it. It has no privacy. You can’t put a smart contract on it. You can’t even put a [43:06 inaudible] blockchain. Why? It was the first one or open the door, which were very fertile field in which we, as technologists have planted some amazing fruitful things. The bitcoins [43:18 inaudible]. So no, I don’t pay attention to it, but I promise you that if it hasn’t happened already, there’s going to be a huge rise in bitcoin.  I mean, a very steep thing and an instant drop. [43:32 inaudible]. I was one of the head of the like I said, six largest miners in the world. So I know [43:43 inaudible] and it’s ridiculous. Everybody else, [43:49 inaudible] nobody uses it anymore. Nobody used to be. I could buy stuff with bitcoin. However, today you can’t. Nobody [43:59 inaudible] people used.


Brett King: I want to give you one more question here. Elon Musk has been going off his tree right now about this situation, but why haven’t we seen silicon valley doing more proactively to sort of help us navigate through this? No, through the whole coronavirus thing. 


John McAfee: Elon and I think exactly alike. I mean, we comment on each other’s tweets. He commented on mine three days ago, going yes, absolutely. Why when I was saying this is the biggest bunch of garbage I have ever seen. And he went on and said, absolutely. The tweets about this are wrong. The publications picked up. The reason is because silicon valley is too smart to believe that this is real people. These are heads, these are heads of technological corporations, they can add and subtract and multiply and divide. That’s all people need to understand that this is nonsense. If you can answer [45:04 inaudible] and want to spend a few days pouring through the [45:12 inaudible] through the who and John Hopkins data and going to every single countries of the equivalent of the CDC, you will see that what is this garbage? So Elon knows it’s garbage. Every silicon valley [45:25 inaudible] knows its garbage. Why should they be helping a non-problem? People, please, it just drives me crazy that I’m not talking about you, but the listeners out there, people don’t sink anymore. You allow out of two things, laziness and fear. What’s the fear? The fear is off making the wrong decision or thinking the wrong thought. Which is the same thing. Oh my god, if I make my own decisions and what happens, I’m responsible for [46:00 inaudible]. If I make a wrong decision, bad things. If I follow somebody and they make a wrong decision, who gets blamed? Them, not me. Do you understand? This is why no one thinks anymore. When I grew up, my father and grandfather, said trust no one and do not ever believe a statement or an idea from another human being.  You work it our yourself, and you have [46:35 inaudible] what I did, [46:39 inaudible] within three hours of digging and just basic math, add, subtract, multiply and divide, you could have noticed it, okay this is not a real problem. Like Elon did, like I did like every silicon valley [46:58 inaudible] I’m not going to say it. Why? Extraordinarily unpopular. 


Dave Birch: It’s the implication of what you’re saying john. You think that we’re waiting for a kind of more sophisticated cryptocurrency to come along. 


John McAfee: I thought we were talking about the corona virus. Listen I am an old man. I’m confused. [47:27 inaudible] crypto currency. No, we have sophisticated cryptocurrencies. Monero is the most sophisticated. Well, the problem is we can’t get that chain to work on a distributed exchange. I’ve built the first distributed exchange four months ago, the MacAfee decks, now it’s in beta. Right now all we can exchange are bitcoin, Ethereum, all Ethereum tokens, Tron and [47:53 inaudible]. But on the Ethereum chain, we can exchange thousands of [48:02 inaudible] all through up to ERC, 1440. So really, we can exchange [48:05 inaudible]. But we can’t get Monero on distributive chains that when they wrote Monero, when they built Monero, no one anticipated the need for distributed exchanges. Why do we need them? Because even though you have a privacy coin like Monero, if you’re on a centralized exchange, you’ve got the privacy. Only if you are using it. Absolutely if you want to get out and get cash, too bad, also to even use it, you have to connect your wallet to your identification and you have to give them your name, your address, the documents on a distributed exchange like ours, nothing is [48:46 inaudible] anti money laundering. We don’t ask for a name, email address, not even an IP address. You are completely anonymous. So through a distributed exchange, the anonymity of the exchange and the anonymity of the privacy coin make you insensible to governments, to spying, to hackers. No one will ever know what you’re doing. With bitcoin if you give me your wallet, we exchange something [49:15 inaudible] after I can look inside your wallet forever and see what goes in, what goes out, how much he has. 


Dave Birch: One thing I didn’t quite get, I can’t remember the exact figures, but I think I saw something the other day say, I can’t remember. 3% of global GDP is money laundering or something, but I don’t remember. It was a big number. 


John McAfee: It’s more, it’s probably five.


Dave Birch: 5%. So therefore you would imagine that these guys will be going nuts to use these [49:44 inaudible]. 


John McAfee: Yes of course.


Dave Birch: The volumes keeps, the volumes seemed very low to me. 


John McAfee: Of course you are talking about market value my friend. That’s got nothing to do with the value of the coin. I’m talking about the use of the coin, using Monero to buy and sell goods. It is 90% of the market. Bitcoin is almost zero. Bitcoin has no value. Monero is the only coin with value.  If you go on the dark web, try and buy anything with bitcoin, they will laugh at you. Ethereum, they will laugh at you. 99% of all transactions are Monero. It is the biggest coin ever created people. You’re looking at what it’s worth on the market. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. What they’re wonder what they’re looking for is what’s it wort as currency. Walking by with a bitcoin, it’s worthless. [50:42 inaudible]. Do you understand and that is the value? Now I had a point, although I did forget it. We were talking about privacy warnings. [50:56 inaudible] so now the question is, do you want privacy or not? And more importantly, what about all the crooks who are using it? Do you understand if all the crooks are using it, that is the greatest authentication of the value? I mean for example when the telephone came out, who used it first for nationwide communication? The mob. So they could organize their criminal activities nationwide. When the automobile came out and they started building bigger and bigger engines, in the thirties, when the first eight cylinder came out, the police were always three or four years behind. The gangs bought the fastest car. In the thirties, bank robberies increased by a factor of 10. Why? Because I could buy a fast car, robbed the bank. [51:44 inaudible] with the police and [51:46 inaudible].


Dave Birch: I am just curious. Cause you know more about the technology john. So is Monero like an evolutionary step or are we getting close to like the end point. 


John McAfee: I think Monero is the end point with one exception. It cannot be used in a distributive exchange. But next month I’m reducing, I am releasing a coin called ghost, which can, and it’s equal to Monero in privacy respect, but you can use it on a distributed exchange, which gives you true privacy.


Brett King: I like the name, ghost.


Dave Birch: Well he knows about marketing Brett. 


Brett King: Hey guys, we got like two minutes left. I want to do this.  I’m respectful of john’s time here. What is your plan over the next 60 days? And what should we be doing? 


John McAfee: My plan is to get the ghost onto the dollar exchange. And by the end of June, our exchange will be out of beta and in production. And we’ll have every coin in the world, that it will be exactly like binance, only distributing. No one can ever shut it down and the governments can never know anything about you, that’s number one. Number two, if this lockdown does not end by the 21st of May, I’m going to go out and buy guns. And I promise you if it hasn’t ended, you better get guns and food because whatever structure they’re supporting our society and our economic and governmental system is going to collapse. And thank you for having me on. 


Brett King: And on that cheering note, John MacAfee, thank you for joining breaking bank. Dave birch, thanks for joining us. Katie, as always miss metaverse. 


Dave Birch: I can’t believe it’s been 7-year Brett. I can’t believe it.

Brett King: John, all the best and thank you very much for your insights. 


John McAfee: Thank you my friends. Thank you. 


Brett King: Thank you. 


That’s it for this week. Thanks to our guests and to our sponsors who help make the show possible. You may have a little more time on your hands right now, so you can listen to all of our more than 300 shows plus episodes from all of our other shows, including breaking bank’s Europe, tack on [54:09 inaudible] finovate podcast, and more all on www.provoke.fm. I hope you liked them. And if so that you’ll give all the shows five stars and share them with others, stay home if he can, take care of your loved ones, let’s all work together to move this industry forward and to make it stronger than ever. That’s it for this week. We’ll see you again next week with more breaking banks


[outro] you’ve been listening to breaking banks with host Brett king. Please be sure to join us again next Thursday at noon, pacific time, 3:00 pm eastern time for more of the latest and fintech news.